Posted by blue bird on April 8, 2007 at 20:37 GMT (ID:3100265)

Water on Mars?

"Waterfall' in frozen state - as suggested on J. Skipper site (Mars Anomaly Research). It's amazing. He always give you link to the NASA image.

Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin

Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin

Editor's Note:
These "fans" do not look like frozen water to me, though they do prove water flow. They do not in the least resemble what a waterfall on Earth looks like when it freezes, and though Mars is a different world, water is still water and behaves the same way. What they do look like is aluvial fans, created when water flowed down between the cliffs. - Zorgon

quote: Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
If you like, I can list the biochemical reasons why this is simply not possible

LOL This time I have to agree that we are not looking at Vegetation... I am here on page one so forgiveme if someone pointed this out...

But the OP showed us an image of the south polar CO² ice fields and the Malin page even says "thawing ice"

Okay so what are the black thingies? Something truly alien and only found on Barsoom...

As the sun warms the ice, the rays go through the ice and warm the black sand... then as the ice melts from the bottom up (sublimates directly to CO² gas...) the ice field levitates... actually floats above the surface...

Yes you heard me LEVITATES...

As holes appear the black sand is whooshed out the holes by the gas pressure making awesome geysers of black sand...

All the details and close up images from Malin are here...

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Mars_Images_10a.html

The Martian TREES are here :P

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Mars_Images_09.html

Now lemme read the rest of the pages in the thread and see if anyone noticed this 

quote: Originally posted by Fiverz
"Our logic says that oxygen and/or water is needed for most organic life. Assuming that's true..."

Oy listen up a sec folkes! Though they do need water... trees and other vegetation take in CO² something which Mars has in abundance and GIVE OFF Oxygen

Lets at least get our facts straight on that issue 

quote: Originally posted by selfless
"Pretty sure someone already said that on this thread."

Yep it was mentioned once and ignored LOL

Edited to Add...

I read all the thread and I see a lot of bickering over this.... but no one yet figured this out, even thought its all over the internet... (oh yeah you have to know where to look ) Try Geysers Mars in Google 

Here is a picture of the Polar Ice Cap... not hard to find really...
THIS ice is mostly CO² ice, ergo "dry ice" and VERY COLD
 

Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin

Image Credit: ESA

But the black "trees" in this case are GEYSERS of SAND {for those who never follow links here is a picture...}
 

Artwork Credit: Arizona State University/Ron Miller

Now stop bickering and look at those truly Alien geysers coming from levitating fields of Carbon Dioxide Ice... it doesn't get more Alien than this!

Oh and check out the shadows they leave in close up...
 

Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin

Oh yeah almost forgot... the stuff on the craters edge of the water lake in that crater.... ESA is saying they think its snow 

Well that nearly explains it all for me. I had no idea that these geysers were so abundant on Mars. Now that you mentioned it I can see how the majority of these 'anomalies', viewed in these photographs, fit the description. 

quote: Originally posted by mikesingh
"Remember this one which you colored? Or is it the true color of Mars???"

HEY I missed that one!! Seems that thread got lost on the favorites list... see what happens when you jump all over the place? LOL That is as good as the "true color" River that John Lear posted...

Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin

Thank's zorgon for nice picks!

About geysers -  and dark spots as a result, was imaged before by NASA, and they called them 'SEEPS' / Suspected Evidence of Erosion Process Sites/ but at that time call was that it is evidence of underground ice melting!

Here is research paper with lots of images; "Martian Water Stains or Dust Slides?"
 
 

Image Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin

 Image Source: Malin Space System - S1802576
 

Color Image Source: Malin/Space.com - 20162-M1101809

Here are some more images from SPACE. COM: Mars Image Thread

But these images of ELONGATED dark spots are not the same in appearance, - as those 'branching' images that - reassembles 'trees'.
 

Editors Note:
The "Trees" are discussed on page one of the Blue Bird Files and also on Pegasus Files "Trees" on Mars - Zorgon

quote: Originally posted by zorgon
Here is a picture of the Polar Ice Cap... not hard to find really... THIS ice is mostly CO2 ice ergo "dry ice" and VERY COLD

"Giant Pool of Water Ice at Mars' South Pole"

Excerpt
By Jeanna Bryner Staff Writer
15 March 2007

"Mars is unlikely to sport beachfront property anytime soon, but the planet has enough water ice at its south pole to blanket the entire planet in more than 30 feet of water if everything thawed out.

With a radar technique, astronomers have penetrated for the first time about 2.5 miles (nearly four kilometers) beneath the south pole’s frozen surface. The data showed that nearly pure water ice lies beneath.

“This is the first time that a ground-penetrating system has ever been used on Mars,” said the new radar study’s lead author, Jeffrey Plaut of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

The reflected beams revealed that 90 percent or more of the frozen polar material is PURE WATER ICE, sprinkled with dust particles. The scientists calculated that the water would form a 36-foot-deep ocean of sorts if spread over the Martian globe......."

SOURCE and rest of article: (On File)

So - for a long time it is no secret to scientists that Marth south pole - conteins CO2 ice, BUT >>> "Measurements in recent years found strong evidence for abundant WATER ICE BENEATH, and that it gets exposed during summer melts of the overlying carbon dioxide."

Bluebird

Mars Mystery: Strange Spirals in Ice Caps Explained

Excerpt
By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer
25 March 2004

"Odd spiraling gorges etched deep into the polar ice caps of Mars have stumped scientists for decades. The huge arcing troughs radiate outward like arms of a pinwheel, creating an overall shape that visually and mathematically resembles hurricanes, spiral galaxies and even some seashells.

Now there is an apparent solution to the mystery, put forth by Jon Pelletier of the University of Arizona in Tucson.

The tilted planet causes ice on one side of a crack to heat and vaporize, deepening and widening the crack. Then the water vapor hits the shady, colder side of the growing canyon and refreezes.

Eventually, chasms more than a half-mile (1 kilometer) deep developed, and they cover hundreds of miles of the polar regions. But only on Mars, it seems..."

SOURCE and rest of article: (On File)

Yes but C02 ice thaws at -109.3 °F or -78.5 °C so its going to need to get a lot warmer on Mars before that water ice will be ready for taking a dip...

And I don't buy the 36 feet of water over the entire planet if the pole melts... As ice expands when it freezes I just don't see the quantity of ice at the poles to cover that much..

Some here have talked about the scarcity of water in the solar system... we know there are electric storms on all the planets... if you have ANY oxygen and hydrogen in the air sooner or later the result will be water molecules so I would hazard a guess that water exists in a lot more places than most expect...

I am not 100% sure either in 'raw' images not to edited by NASA - for example, you have right and left camera on rover, both of them are one unit and should have the same angles when shooting, and than you have - one with sky and other without...not to mention colors

Speaking of 'dry' Mars. does this look dry or rather pretty muddy and wet:
 

Posted by blue bird, on April 11, 2007 at 16:36 GMT (ID:3107720)

quote: Originally posted by SuicideVirus
That place is just too damned cold and dry to sustain any larger lifeforms.
 

TEMPARATURE
You may be very surprised if I tell you that the Spirt In 2004, the Spirit rover recorded the warmest temperature around +5 C and the coldest is -15 Celsius in the Guisev Crater.

And that for example Viking measured warmest soil occasionally reaches +81° F (27° C).
SOURCE

DRY !?

Do you find this soil dry or muddy and wet? (referring to image above)

Salt on Mars - Indication of Former Sea Beds

It also appears in many Rover tracks that the ground may indeed be moist, as the salt will appear after a few minutes as if the exposed salt was drying. More on this to follow...

SOURCE: Pegasus Files 'Salty Soil" (On File)

Mars Rovers Explore Hints of Salty Water

Excerpt
By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer
19 February 2004

NASA's Opportunity rover sent back new images from Mars showing that small spheres previously found on the surface also exist below, in a trench the rover dug. Hints of salty water were also found in the trench, but much more analysis is needed to learn the true composition.

Meanwhile Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, is about to dig a trench of its own in order to investigate soil that sticks to its wheels, suggesting the fine-grained material might be moist.

In a press conference today, officials said the soil at both locations could contain small amounts of water mixed with salt in a brine that can exist in liquid form at very low temperatures.

The scientists stressed that only miniscule amounts of water would be needed to create the brine.

Water is the main thing scientists are searching for at Mars, because all life as we know it requires liquid water.

SOURCE: Space.com (On File)

 Water Once Filled Mars Opportunity Rover Landing Site

Excerpt
By Tariq Malik Staff Writer
02 March 2004

"The landing site of the Mars rover Opportunity was once drenched with water, providing an environment that could have supported life, NASA scientists announced at a press conference today.

Water once covered or infused the small crater in which the rover sits, then it gradually evaporated away leaving high concentrations of salt behind. A lake or ocean at the site and beyond might have once been the size of one of Earth's Great Lakes. Or the area might have been loaded with groundwater that rarely if ever reached the surface.

And while no signs of biological activity are likely to be uncovered by the current mission, scientists are ecstatic that they now know exactly where to look for past life on Mars..."

SOURCE and rest of article: (On File)

Mars Rover Sits on Ancient Beach

Excerpt
Tuesday, 23 March

The US space agency has announced that its robotic Mars rover Opportunity is parked on what was once the shore of a salty Martian sea.

There is multiple evidence that the surface of Mars was awash with liquid water at some time in its past.

But the latest findings from Nasa's robot explorers on the Red Planet are fleshing out a picture of what Mars must have been like when it was wet...

"If you have an interest in searching for fossils on Mars, this is the first place you want to go
Ed Weiler, Nasa" - Talking about Opportunity's landing site at Meridiani Planum"

SOURCE: BBC and rest of article: (On File)

Water on Mars? Flood of Data, Trickle of Answers

Excerpt
By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer
27 February 2004

Both rovers recently dug trenches that revealed clumpy material that might involve very small amounts of water vapor from the atmosphere combining with salt in the soil to form a sticky brine. A full analysis of the trench data -- gathered by multiple instruments -- is underway.

Most scientists are convinced Mars was once warmer and wetter. The questions nowadays involve where the water was, where it went, and whether it was around long enough to foster life.

SOURCE and rest of article: